Like Attracts Like Podcast 824: Medicinal Mushrooms & Conscious Relationships | The Medicin Podcast

interviews relationships Jun 30, 2023

Mimi and Chase are living examples of what it means to ask the hard (and unusual) questions in relationship, while staying open to the answers. In this episode, we dive into their incredible story, the role medicinal mushrooms have played in their journey (both together and separately), and how they continue to evolve together, share what they have learned on their journey, and help others create deep, healthy, passionate partnership supported by a healthy & conscious lifestyle.



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Episode 824: Medicinal Mushrooms & Conscious Relationships with Mimi & Chase

 By Pat Mahan


Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the like attracts like podcast if you are a new listener to the show. Thank you so much for joining. And if you're a repeat listener, thank you so much for tuning back in today. I have a very, very special guest and as many of you know, I don't often do guest on the show, but there was literally no way that I could not have these two beautiful humans on here with me. Jason, Maybe since I have met you, I know we've only really, like, talked at one time. I feel like you guys are my best friends. Success? You can ask Gina I'm sitting there, I'm like, I can't. I can't wait to talk with them again. Like, I cannot wait. And yeah, and I'm so excited for you, for you to share not just your journey and your story, but like what you're doing now and how you're doing it. I just I can't wait for for our listeners to meet you. So if you have, you know, a second tell, tell us about who you are and how you got here. [00:03:41][60.5]

Speaker 2: [00:03:42] Yeah, totally. And feeling is mutual because I was like buzzing after our conversation last week. I was like, This guy freaking rocks. [00:03:49][7.5]

Speaker 3: [00:03:50] Yeah, we were legitimately high from our conversation with you. [00:03:53][3.1]

Speaker 1: [00:03:53] Love it. Oh, yeah, I'm still in. All right. Sorry, guys. [00:03:56][2.7]

Speaker 2: [00:03:57] Yeah. So I'll give you the. You know, the elevator I abridged. Yeah, I'll give you that just elevator statement of, you know, kind of what we do in the world today. And then. And then we can unpack our story as well. We host the Medicine podcast. We live in San Diego, California, and we are childhood sweethearts from the Pacific Northwest. We got married very young. We got divorced in our mid twenties, went our separate ways, never thought we would ever see each other ever again and call it the universe, call it God, the divine, whatever you want. We organically reconnected after being divorced for three years and kicked off what we call part two to our relationship. And we've been back together over four years, four and a half years at this point, podcasting together. Deep diving into the world of relationships and conscious relationships and also expressing our shared passion for holistic health adaptogenic health, specifically using medicinal mushrooms. And so now we are just like the fervor in our body is for this this world of self-development, spiritual evolution, consciousness, holistic. We just can't get enough of it. And it's conversations like this that really feel aligned with purpose and joy. [00:05:19][82.5]

Speaker 1: [00:05:20] Yeah. Now, how would you guys say so? Like focusing on, you know, the relationship aspect of it that's from like you, you meeting. Going back individually. How do you guys feel this? You know, if we're talking about our sense of self as this divine guidance thing that's playing itself out like above the maze, right? We're down here in this maze and we think we have these ideas of how this is going to unfold and how we're going to meet and who we're going to meet and what we want. And then there's this other aspect of us that like it's always there. And even when we're not connected to it, questioning what our path is like. What were your individual paths that led you to the first part? Like part one of what we're calling the relationship? Like, what were the first parts of the you that you know yourself as that kind of led to this? [00:06:06][45.9]

Speaker 2: [00:06:08] Yeah. Beautiful question. The foundation of our relationship going all the way back to 14 and 15 years old is play fun, spontaneity, novelty. And we were we were buds. We could not stop making each other laugh, spending time together. And we actually were friends for quite a while before we started dating. Mimi was my first girlfriend, first girl I ever kissed, and we just fell in love with this like, beautiful backdrop of play and the dynamic, the relationship. It was in high school, were playing sports together, long bus rides and were just hanging out, having a great time. It's summers at the lake and it's, you know, at 16 years old, staring up at like, shooting stars, promising each other that we'll be together forever. It's like, full blown nineties, like. Comical romance almost. That was the real foundation of what is is now a relationship that's still embedded in play. [00:07:05][57.6]

Speaker 3: [00:07:07] And then so I think that we should go into our individual. Maybe if this is playing off of the question that you're asking, like in part one of our relationship, who were we individually that got us to the point of divorce or equity? [00:07:24][17.1]

Speaker 1: [00:07:24] The reason why is because the medicinal mushroom is so important in the story. Right. And it's so much of what like you're focusing on what you do. And there's an interesting theme because I have had so many and continue to have so many amazingly profound I call them fourth wall break connections using using medicinal mushrooms in my own life and experience. So the fact that you are here to share this and also how it's going to play a part in like the story that other people might be able to listen to and resonate under the theme of like that fun. It's playful, like there's this, there's this component. A dish that I kind of like see happening, and especially off of our even our last conversation that I want to bring in a little bit, I think will really help humans see not only what you do, but how it worked in your life, like you're going from this place of play. And it was everything like. You know, we're calling it 92nd because people my age can relate. But what that means is that, like it's just this carefree, connected, you know, the relationship between, you know, your self and some force that's unseen. But like, there's a shooting start, like the playfulness of nothing matters so that everything can, like, this whole intertwined thing, right? And then there's something together, like because of this, we need to make this forever. Like we should. We should connect in what they're calling a marriage. This is like, let's do this, and then something kind of comes in. Yeah. And then now you're coming back into doing this with with mushrooms, in my experience of mushrooms has been entered reintroducing me to the conscious that the highest level of self that knows that it's a game and knows that it's playful and knows that there's this thing happening that you're unaware of and because you're not aware of it, you're terrified. Yeah, you know what I mean? And our process to reveal that. I would love to know how that kind of played out in your lives. [00:09:18][113.5]

Speaker 3: [00:09:19] Yeah, I, I, I'm in now, as you're speaking, I'm getting this thought of Chase just laid out beautifully, sort of the the rich soil, the foundation of what our love was. It was pure love. And it was centered around play and connection and authenticity. Like we were all our fullest authentic selves with each other, which made us fall deeper into into love. And then, you know, as we start migrating into adulting, which is really hard, we had just like every other late teens or early twenties person does, probably you have a lot of, you know, people in the peanut gallery, external noise sort of influencing how you should show up now that you're officially an adult, how you should be, what you should sort of strive for in your career, and what that should look like. Status, money, make sure you're working towards these things and these things. And we had a lot of chatter and input and influence on what our life should look like. And looking back now, I think that if we would have been better at sort of staying grounded in what we knew was healthy for us as we continued to grow and kind of stayed stayed rooted in that, I think we would have had a lot, a lot better and more fruitful marriage. But we were trying to fit the mold of what we saw our siblings do, what we saw our parents do, what we saw people in the church, you know, the evangelical church that we grew up in, what they were doing. And we sort of tried to mold our life into what we call now the mainstream script of happiness, where it's like you go to college, you get a degree, you find your person, you graduate, you get married, you start, you know, you get a house, you have the kids. We don't have kids yet, but we were, you know, checking off those boxes. And it really thrust us into a position where both of us were wearing masks that were not authentic and things started to break down from that place. [00:11:34][134.8]

Speaker 2: [00:11:34] Yeah, in the evangelical community and we kindergarten through college at a Christian in a Christian environment and the community itself, a smaller town, there's just the script that you're handed and execute. And I'm someone who executes. And so I saw the script seemed pretty good from the surface and let's go and stepping into in our early twenties, stepping into the role of husband and wife really unconsciously. And it was those moments of and of course we now can understand and have a little bit of a paint, a little more narrative towards towards these types of things. But you're you're like a remote control that's got all these buttons programed from your parents, from your environment, from the communities that you come through. And those buttons are like sequenced by age or life experience and you don't know your husband button until it's pressed. So my my teenage boyfriend button, my twentysomething fiancee button was pretty damn good, but that husband button turned into an asshole pretty quickly and that button for adulthood. I had no control over the reactionary type responses that would come up. So it was fear around money. It was fear around the future. It was excessively working out because I was striving to be fit. It was excessively working. I worked in public accounting and finance. I traveled all over the West Coast and I was gone Monday through Friday every week as newlyweds. And it was this type of thrusting, you know, this this thrust into a domain where all it was was sort of stress and fear and anxiety. Created this new dynamic into the relationship that neither one of us had the tools to integrate alkermes and be able to work through in a mature way. So we do we do these types of like reactionary versions of husband and wife for a few years before we ultimately get to the point where we're both very aware that this is not working well. And my solution was let's move to Southern California. We never meant to be in the Northwest. You know, we got let's go to the beach and the sunshine in the ocean. We'll save all of our our problems. And I had an opportunity with the firm that I was working for to take a promotion. And I was like, we're going. I'm I've signed this thing. Let's do this. Only to find out that me, me at this time brought up the fact that she was actually. Ready to separate and divorce and that I should go on my own. [00:14:05][150.9]

Speaker 3: [00:14:06] Yeah, it was a it was it wasn't really an option that I was presenting. It wasn't like, hey, things are not working. Let's work on this. Let's do this. I had come to over the course of the previous year to this conclusion that I would be happier if we were separated and that he just must not be my person. I must have gotten gotten it wrong. Well, when you are so separated from any balanced, sole connection to yourself, that probably does seem like a solution. That probably does seem like the thing to do. And it did at the time. But I was so out of balance physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally. I was a shell of a human. And so when you make decisions from that place, you can probably bet 100% of the time it's not going to be the answer that you thought you were looking for. And lo and behold, that was the case. And it wasn't until Chase and I separated and we he went down to Southern California. I was still up in in Seattle working my very busy dental hygiene job. And really, you know, getting to this point where I was just so tired of carrying the psychic weight of the the emotional turmoil that I put myself through. I got to this point where I was like, I can't I cannot do I can't do this anymore. You know, tears streaming down my face. And I was like, I have to do something. I have to figure this out. I couldn't even let myself think about Chase or fond memories of us together because it just hurt too much of what I did to us. And so I didn't let myself go there. And finally I get to this breaking point where I'm like, I got it. I got to figure this out. So I go on this very, you know, deep dive, peeling back the layers, self reflecting for the first time in the only way that I know how which is listening to podcasts and trying to read books and trying to figure it out like that clearly is not how you do it. How do you do life well? And Chase was also going through a similar type of self-reflection, self-development process. And you know, we weren't speaking or anything, but slowly peeling back the layers, asking myself questions that I had never asked before, getting curious about my inner world for the first time in my life and really searching for solutions from a balanced place, as balanced as I knew how. And, you know, I was questioning my beliefs in God. I was questioning what I knew about health. Everything was up for grabs. Everything was up for debate. Is this working for me? And through that process, you know, long story short, through that process, I was able get to get to a place that felt balanced and healthy for the first time. And that was about two ish, two and a half years after our divorce, which is right around the time that we actually started, you know, speaking again as just friends. [00:17:09][182.7]

Speaker 2: [00:17:09] Yeah. So wildly enough as we're separated, we're talking about years of not talking to each other. And we both hit health like rock bottoms. You know, we exhaust ourselves with the attempt at being healthy and doing it in all the wrong ways. Both have a really similar path to finding holistic wellness, finding medicinal mushrooms, being this huge ally for our own wellness recovery. And then two and a half years later, through friends of friends here that we were on these very similar paths. So we reach out or maybe reaches out. To me, I'm working in a the startup wellness space and, you know, working with medicinal mushrooms and creating products that have to do with them. And we're like, Whoa, you're in a moment. You're in the mushrooms. Cool. And we start having these, like, really friendly conversations around health and wellness and mushrooms to the point that when I go home for the holidays, we decide to get coffee and just talk out about mushrooms to the point that three or four months after that, we're now 2019. This is about March of 2019. We run into each other at a wellness event in Anaheim, California. We spend three days together talking out about mushrooms, but on I think it was the second or third night, we end up in her rental car and, you know, shit gets real. We are talking about our divorce, what went wrong, Our relationship. We're sitting in this bubble of what almost feels like an MDMA experience of empathy and compassion. And we're crying and we're holding each other's hands and we're just like, I had no idea what I was doing and I'm so sorry, you know, apologizing to each other. And it was that night, as we said goodbye, that I grabbed her face. I stared at her in the eyes and I kissed her and told her I loved her. And we'd been divorced three years at that point. And I didn't really know what was going to happen, but. Long story short or long story long? It was about six months from that moment she moved back or she moved with me to my home in San Diego. And we kicked off, you know, what we're calling part two, which has just been incredible. So we are we are divorced and in love at this point. [00:19:19][129.9]

Speaker 1: [00:19:21] It's it's so I thank you for sharing that and and be. It's so amazing. How. The labels that I believe like mushrooms and these medicines kind of break down. The idea that even just. The conversation about what they represent breaks down the labels and our attachment to them so powerfully that you can sit in a car a years after an event or a life experience and. And apologize for being unaware of who and what you are and be open and vulnerable enough. I was. I had no idea what I was doing. And before there were labels, it was easy to check off these boxes. The boyfriend box Beyonce boxed the girlfriend box that were together in love Box, the free and fun box. And then all of a sudden. This other box comes in and it's this whole play and presentation in the world that was essentially created in the world on the stage by Will. So others. Right. You walked into a world where this was the thing and it meant certain things and it represented certain things and certain ideas of what you needed to be inside of that thing in order to maintain it. And you shift from what works. Into a thing that's been redefined by religions, ideologies, society, expectations, boundaries, label all of these things and the pressure and the force of what that creates based off of the label and nothing else. This thing that we just think we need to figure out or do. Depending upon what you've been told that label is and what your projections from other people. Marriage is really hard. So a lot of hard work. You got to better make sure you, you know, make a lot of money and you got to you know, money is the thing that ruins all marriages. So like now all of a sudden, one of the boxes is like, well, if I don't provide and support and do this and you're like, well, if you know, and then maybe it's like, well, if I don't, you know, hold space and make sure that I'm, you know, able to, you know, nurture and do this like God. So all of the sudden it goes fun goes away. Labels and attachments come in and identity stripped. And now there there's literally a dance of two humans that aren't you trying to relate to each other from a place of authenticity that doesn't exist because the you that is really waiting to connect to this whole time is just waiting for this to play out, waiting for it to gas out. And it takes the shape of all these different kind of behaviors and actions and ideas and thoughts. And I got to do this and I got it. But it's all the characters that have no idea who they are, trying to find out who they are inside of a system of labels that hasn't been created by them. And they think the idea is to get away from the other person who they used to love in order to find themselves and to a degree and in the story. That's a truth, right? And then you do that, you go on this journey, you rediscover and I say through contrast who you are. And now this thing brings you together. And just the idea that, you know, this aspect of wellness and and the medicine that we're talking about here is designed like universally it seems to confront you with the labels that you are believing about yourself and this experience to confront you with what you think separation is and your part in the game. And now both of you are doing that and experiencing that. And then that's what, of course does exactly what it's designed to do in your own relationship. And you come smack back together more authentically is who you are. After all, the labels have been like broken since that day and this shift. What was the progression like as to human beings who are very familiar with the story that you were very emotionally tied to that ultimately ended up in what we're calling the end of Part one, right? Living inside of a reality where you're hyper aware of who you want to be in part to like. What was the integration process of all that you had realized about yourself and each other and all the responsibility and vulnerability that you were accepting in this new journey? How often did the old story come back for you to transmute? Like, was that and what part did it mushrooms play in that navigation, if you will? [00:23:39][259.0]

Speaker 2: [00:23:40] Yeah, no. [00:23:41][0.4]

Speaker 3: [00:23:41] Big part. [00:23:41][0.2]

Speaker 2: [00:23:41] Big part. Beautiful question. We are still unraveling the three years that we were married all the time. We have a conversation with somebody like you and we're like damn whole There was another little diamond in there. So thank you for being that mirror for us. And it started off with a lot of and a lot of consciousness, which is, I think, the primary difference between part one and part two. We call 2019 the Summer of Love, because we didn't give a shit about anything except the fact that we were back together and we were flying high on the endorphins and the dopamine, the oxytocin from just reconciling with our soul match. And so we spent 4 to 5 months just like riding that high, 100% not thinking about the future, not thinking about the past as much, and just setting this foundation up for for part two. [00:24:37][55.3]

Speaker 1: [00:24:37] And that was the first part. Not to interrupt that. That mirrors the first part. That's important. [00:24:41][3.5]

Speaker 3: [00:24:42] Yeah. Being fully present, fully. [00:24:44][1.9]

Speaker 1: [00:24:44] Present in the Now with your attention away from the past or future that doesn't exist and trusting in what you're feeling authentic and being loving of yourself and accepting of the other. And then the other person loves himself enough to accept you as you are, as you navigate infinitely. Yeah, this process that happened again. [00:25:02][17.2]

Speaker 3: [00:25:03] And that's really the only way being present. I'll let Chase jump in here, but just on that note, that is the only way that we can connect with our intuition. That is the only way that we can connect with our higher self. You know, there might be whispers and flirts here and there, but if you want to get an actual download, how do I feel in this moment? You have to be present. You have to be here now. So that that stage of that, you know, four or five months for us was critically important to set the tone for. Part two. [00:25:34][31.3]

Speaker 2: [00:25:35] Yeah, I mean, I was more like when I was 20 years old, we got back together. I was closer to the 16 year old version of me than I was the 20 year old, 25 year old, 26 year old version of me. And it was amazing how those feelings felt so aligned with when we were sophomores in high school. Just completely wild and it. [00:25:58][22.7]

Speaker 3: [00:25:58] Was the same. [00:25:58][0.2]

Speaker 1: [00:25:59] It evaporates time. [00:25:59][0.8]

Speaker 2: [00:26:00] It does it with this. Tool belt. This tool belt of Whoa, babe, I just noticed a trigger and going, Oh, my God, this is what I just wanted to say. This is what I just wanted to do. And then we can put that on the table and we can we can look at it from a distance and say, Man, I wonder where that comes from. I wonder how I can alchemist's this and change this. Like, this is a container of love now, and we're going to be dealing with maybe some of our programs. We're also going to be dealing with the world itself. But if we can come back and consider this little container a place of alchemy, we can turn whatever those charged things on the outside or those programs that are running on the inside, we can turn it into a learning opportunity and in an opportunity to catalyze this into something that can actually create love and growth and evolution. And so we actually spent quite a bit of time that first year noticing our triggers. We worked with a lot of the masculine and feminine energy dynamics in relationship. John Wineland, who's a friend and a teacher, was it was huge for for us in our journey at that time, and we spent a lot of time just identifying, calling out and talking about things behind the thing. And we talked about that a little bit last week where when something shows up, oftentimes we and and so many times that's when it broke down in our marriage was we were hyper focused on the thing itself, the literal thing and and maybe it was socks on the ground and we would engage in these very charged conversations around why are the socks on the ground or why aren't you checking your credit card bills once a week? Or can you reconcile, you know, like things from my lens and things from her lens that we were not, you know, for fitting our end of the bargain. And so as we notice these things maybe come up or remembered them and decided to evaluate, we were looking at them from a few different lenses. One, Hey, what's the masculine and the feminine dynamic here? Are we both in this masculine role and crushing and stifling any sort of spark? But we'd also look at it from, Hey, what was the thing behind the thing? Actually, I think that it wasn't that I was leaving the socks on the ground as much as I wasn't listening to you, And when I wasn't listening to you, you didn't feel heard. And when you didn't feel heard, you don't feel valued. You didn't feel important to me. And so we started to drill into these kind of core values, which, you know, by themselves are beautiful and important and critical that you are concerned with them being present in the relationship. But through all of these separate layers and articulations, they throw up, they show up in the 3D as some point like socks that just derail any sort of productive conversation because it's irrational to be upset about socks when really you pull all the way back and it's about value being seen or heard and loved critical pieces. And so we spent a lot of time unpacking that. We we looked, of course, into our family dynamics, our the community and the environment, the role that Christianity played in some of these gender role expectations of one another. And it was that that first year was was a lot of evaluation where mushrooms comes into play. And I'll say for me in my individual healing journey, when we were divorced, I had I had left Christianity in college and that was another charge in the marriage is that I was not a Christian anymore. And I had kind of gone the route of what was first. Atheist. If I even knew what that meant, scientific materialist, agnostic and was essentially at this place like I'm not, I don't fucking know and I'm pretty bitter about it. So what I'd rather do is spend my time critiquing everybody who believes in a religion or has some idea about the divine as that just started to exhaust. I just put it on pause for a while, but was really fascinated by psychedelics. Like very, very interested. 2011 2012 timeframe. I'm listening to Joe Rogan. I'm like, What is this stuff? Like, This is completely crazy. And I just basically made a mental note like, Hey, when I get an opportunity to do this, I'm going to give this a try. And I had the opportunity when I was about 27 years old to partake in a facilitated psilocybin journey that again, I'm going into this as a scientific materialist blew my fucking mind and it was an experience that connected me with some level of divinity. You know, at the time I think I called it God, but it's just like a bright, shiny light. And I had all of the, the traditional downloads that that one gets through these experiences, one of which was I had been through my bitterness, skepticism, just disconnecting myself from the gateway that was love altogether because of my attachment to needing it to make sense. And so I just spent years disconnected from love itself, too. I was just very, very clear that if I didn't get over a couple of things in my life or work through, I should say look at realize I wasn't going to be able to step into any sort of authentic version of myself. And the first was our divorce and my relationship. The second was my obsessive compulsive ness as it pertained to exercise and nutrition. And then it was around epistemology, my relationships to the divine. And so I had these just sort of like. Absolute clarity. I had some level of connection or a feeling of of the divine, and it enabled me to just really pivot the trajectory of my life into something significantly more abundant, something significantly more. [00:32:05][365.0]

Speaker 1: [00:32:06] Loving. [00:32:06][0.0]

Speaker 2: [00:32:07] Loving, compassionate. And by the time we reconnected, this was a huge part of my life and my curiosity for where something like the responsible use of psychedelics can take you was was critically important. So much so that when we reconciled it was like full disclosure. This is really, really important to me and I'm inviting you to partake as we reconcile. And so it really was quite literally months into our part two that we engaged in psilocybin together. [00:32:42][35.7]

Speaker 3: [00:32:43] And I was before we were even back together, before we were even talking about getting back together, Chase was sharing this experience with me, this this mind and heart opening experience with this journey. And I was just really curious. I had never done psychedelics. I didn't really know much about them, but I was open this again. I was just everything was open in me and I wanted to know like some of these modalities and if this was a thing that was helping Chase receive more love, feel more love, feel more connected to God or the divine or just love in general, whatever that was, and if it's working for him, cool. I love this thing then, because he had become my friend at this point and when he shared this with me and the downloads and everything, I was like, This is so cool. I'm so happy for you. So right off the bat, when we started talking about it, I was completely open and curious. And so, yes, when we were officially back together, we were able to do it was it wasn't a facilitated journey. It was just us. And it was it was a smaller dose enough, small enough that we were able to, like, walk around and go outside and observe nature. And so we're sitting on the water and having this beautiful moment together. And, you know, I'm just watching the fireworks behind my eyelids and like, this is like nothing else I've ever experienced. And it was the first time in that little mini journey that we had together that I heard my own soul speaking to me from inside, where it was like it wasn't I wasn't heard with my ears. It was heard with like my heart, with my with, with my every cell of my being. It was an instant download of of like understanding that I had this connection to my soul at all times. And you don't necessarily need the medicine or psilocybin or whatever it is to connect you. It's there all the time. This is just opening the curtains. And so from that point, I really made a conscious effort to continue to live my life and show up into our relationship connected to that soul in my being. And it really has influenced the way that I want to show up as a partner to Chase. [00:35:06][143.0]

Speaker 2: [00:35:06] Yeah, it's like if you've got a shrapnel in your body from some explosion and it's healed over and you're functioning, but you've got this just weird lump. Psychedelics are like the numbing mechanism to open the wound back up and get that peace out. And the triggers of talking about things like infidelity lies. Aggressive, you know, trauma, if you will. Energetic trauma. And I don't want to hijack that word because it's it is one that should be taken seriously. All of the things that were prevalent in our marriage. We're able to talk about with an open heart, with tears of love for each other, staring in each other's dilated eyes and working through without the egoic triggers manifesting and hurting the other. It's unlike anything I've ever experienced, and we're able to now in a sober state. Open those portals. Create the little bubble of safety and have those types of conversations still today. If something is coming up, hey, when we were on that podcast and we had to bring up our divorce and I felt something today, I felt something that triggered me a little bit. I think it's coming back, you know, it's like those types of examples where we're still able to open that up today. And and yes, mushrooms is a critical piece of our life. We look at it like we're running a marathon once or twice a year and we we engage, prepare, do our best to integrate, hold space. But it's not something that is an escape at this point. And although they can be very fun, it's almost like at this point I have so much reverence for it. I'm hesitant to be happenstance whimsical with them because I might end up on the floor like crying and baring my soul to to, you know, whoever, whoever I'm with. [00:37:07][120.4]

Speaker 1: [00:37:08] So. Wow. So, so, so a beautifully articulated by both of you and so powerful in so many ways because like, as you're describing it and what you're describing and kind of like what I'm seeing and feeling and then relating to my own experiences and even in just inside of conversations that are happening with, I like to say like the Self-Realization Game is going on all of the time, whether you're aware of it or not, you're constantly looking for who you are Under every moment there is a who are you and and depending upon. What level of identity you've attached your sense of self to. That's who you show up as Right. And if much of that is unconscious or how much of that is pushed down into what you would call like a shadow where you're believing things about your sense of self that aren't universally true to the view that is you and can connect with you down here. Then I believe that that energy like you're saying like that that the shrapnel. Right. Those those stamps that are kind of in a cellular and in the body mind will call it. Right. The personal your personal mind. Those those. Stamps that energy that is not flowing and not one with and not in line with and is resistant to who you are, what you are as an energy source. Right. It's we try to outrun it and distract it and, you know, behave in a way that would act as though those things didn't happen. Or, you know, we try to create a person around around that shrapnel and it could heal over and we might we might kind of get numb to it and walk around. But it's all contained in this like personal mind, this personal sense of self that we visit, like you were talking about, like visiting the past. You're not in the moment when you're in the past. So you can't therefore receive the whisper of that soul that you were talking about. It doesn't yell for your attention because it's the truth. So it doesn't have to scream. Yeah. And the lies of your ego are shouting at you to try to convince you to be terrified of who you are and what they think of you and what you need to do and the labels you need to hold you. So like that, energy is very, very loud. And when you're unconscious that you're the whisper you are. You're running in the hamster wheel trying to kind of be this thing. So what I found is there's two ways there are two ways that this works so far that I found, and one of them is you ignore those that energy or long enough and you keep trying to outrun it and distract it. That ultimately when I say it, I'm referring to also us, but beyond us that we're aware of. Like the one thing that seems to have a design that we're unaware of, like the US outside of the maze. That seems to be. They're always like you were saying, connect. We're connected to it always. And it's the US that seems to have a plan that we're unaware of down here. And when we go off of what the plan is for long enough, the reality that we create from that momentum is so horrific to us based on what we believe it represents, that we have these traumatic breakdowns, right? In those moments where everything falls apart and that identity breaks down, you can have like what you would call an awakening moment where that personal mind explodes. There's nothing identity identifying it to anything anymore. My relationship is done, Money's gone. I lost my houses. I lost this. This person needs to know me as this. And now they're like that identity that you were clinging to for safety and for your sense of self is gone. And then you can have a moment where you you blast out for a bit into the truth of the one mind that you actually are before you doubted you were that and then the other way. Is through these experiences that you're talking about, where it's can it and this commitment to it can open up this portal to the truth and the whisper, and it's finally quiet enough that you can hear it. And then it's not a knowing analytically or intellectually. It is an understanding and an acknowledgment from every cell of your being that knows that every cell of your being is one with that thing. And it's like so powerful. The like it's you're like, it blew my mind. And I'm like, yep, it blew the your the personal minds and all of the ideas and stories and beliefs that have been running on autopilot. It blows that out and, and ships you to a frequency of consciousness where you can like, look down on that. And I don't mean down bad. Worse. Like better or worse? I mean, look down on it from a perspective. And that perspective seems to be very loving and very understanding and knows that it was all by design and has you like don't question or doubt or judge any of this because it is exactly what you needed to get to right where you are. So you can do this from that place so that you can understand and forgive and embody. Right. And then you do that and you blast off in that place and you can have these amazing conversations. And then you come back, I sit down and you have to really, like, reintegrated again. And it's just it's so it's so amazing. When you choose to do this with another human being and both people are on board the growth and the the freedom that the old US was looking for, trying to control and manipulate things is so much more powerful when you can just be yourself and and kind of like open those portals together. And the thing that I wanted to kind of like touch on and ask you guys about the last thing you said there was kind of funny where in a great way where you were like, Yeah, So I don't like you could take it to have fun, right? Like some people take it for, like, maybe you want to see some colors. They're like, you're unaware, like mushrooms, right? It does have a stigma. Not much. Not as much anymore, if I find. But back in the day for sure. It seems as though this. This medicine that it connects to. Like I was saying, this thing that's happening above us, if you will, in around us and in us, that you can it doesn't necessarily matter what your intention is, even though your intention is the most important thing. So that's going to sound paradoxical, but what I mean is that if you're like, this is going to be a fun one, Me and you. Okay, Yeah, yeah. We're just going to do this for fun. It seems to have and it's you, but it as you seems to have it, whatever you need is what you're going to get. So if you're not open fully. Like, if the intention isn't. I am open fully to whatever it is you are here to show me so that I can grow and evolve and expand and open into the best, highest version of me that you already are. If it's not that, then you open yourself up for what I used to and is is defined as a bad trip. Mm hmm. Some something being shown that you're not. You don't think you're ready to see or move? Like, what is your experience with that inside of your own life? And then ultimately, I would love for you to even shift into, like, other people and what what you found with them. [00:44:06][417.8]

Speaker 2: [00:44:06] Yeah, I think that. I've heard this said and it it feels really right. Psychedelics will bring you closer to love, even if that means running up into the things that are keeping you from love. [00:44:22][15.3]

Speaker 1: [00:44:23] It shows you why you don't. [00:44:24][0.9]

Speaker 2: [00:44:25] And you can be some of them more, the more challenging experience. I think what get labeled as as bad trips and although I'm grateful to have not had any of that that were horrific, I have had moments where my intention is for playfulness, maybe some insight, but I'm excited to see the sacred geometry of the flowers that I'm going to go walk through and find myself, you know, reliving my mother's childhood in the most, like, powerful, out of body, empathetic way. That is heartbreaking. And so. What can seem like a light experience on the onset can radically change into something that is very deep. And. And I've had also, you know, ones that get get weird and frightening, but ultimately always have some level of like mythical story and journey to them that that you're able to digest and work through and find meaning from. So yeah, I hesitate to say bad, bad trip. [00:45:29][64.4]

Speaker 1: [00:45:30] Of course. [00:45:30][0.1]

Speaker 2: [00:45:31] I'm not sure if you want to jump in on any of those for you. [00:45:33][2.0]

Speaker 3: [00:45:34] Yeah, I've similarly never had what I would call a bad trip because every single time I've gone into using any sort of medicine, the intention, like you said, it's so perfect how you put it. It is paradoxical because it doesn't matter what your intention is, but like you said, it's the most important thing. And I think that when your intention that you speak out loud or write in your journal or whatever before you partake is in alignment with what the medicine is going to show you anyways. That's when when I have this feeling sometimes where I'm like, Holy shit, how did the medicine hear me so perfectly? And it's because I am in my waking sober state and connected to my soul and understanding the little whispers and nudges and things that it's sending to me where it's like, Hey, hey, homegirl. Like, you might want to look at this. Like, this keeps coming up for you. You might want to look at this, you might want to look at this. So then when you get into a ceremony or, you know, any sort of journey, I'm able to draw on those nudges that I've been feeling for maybe a week or a month or whatever it is. And I'm able to say, you know, I'm here. I surrender to whatever the medicine wants to show me. But if there was some way that I could have some clarity on this matter or this matter, I it would be, you know, so wonderful. And so I'm always open to what it wants to show me. But also, like, I do have an intention that I, you know, speak out loud or say to chase and sometimes they don't match up. You know, I'm fully aware that the medicine, I believe, is always giving me something that I need in this moment. But sometimes they don't match up. It's still wonderful. I still learn something. And then there are times where it matches up perfectly and it's such it's so wild to experience. So I can't say that I've ever had a bad trip because again, I'm going into it so intentionally. But like Chase's, you know, experience that he shared, it doesn't mean that it's all flowers and rainbows and unicorns and beautiful fireworks going off. You know, sometimes I'm sitting and I my shirt is wet with tears from my what I'm experiencing inside my eyelids. And so it's not necessarily easy, but you come out of it and you're like, Oh my God, that was the that was the medicine that I needed in some way, shape or form. And so, yeah, I'm blessed to say that I have never had a bad trip. And I think it is mostly because it's tied to I'm here, I am open to the gifts of God in the universe, whatever they have for me. And I think when people maybe don't have that intention and they resist what is coming up, that's when I think it can get really scary for people when it's like, No, no, no, no, no. I don't want to look at that. I don't want to look at that. And then the fear sets in when if you were to just say to yourself, it's okay, I am safe, I can let go, it's certain. It's suddenly like alchemy eases into something that's still difficult, but not scary. [00:48:52][198.4]

Speaker 2: [00:48:53] It's amazing where just the last in my life, seven years, I wouldn't have told hardly anybody outside of this little woo community that I've got over here, that we're that we're doing psychedelics and now we can talk about it openly. I can have a LinkedIn profile that looks legitimate. AF And can also be publicly saying that I take psychedelics. It's been a wild change and it's it's been interesting to be in it and to to observe. But with that awareness and there's all of these positive benefits, I would imagine the amount of spiritual, personal, emotional breakthroughs and therapy that that's happened because of this awareness is, you know, too much to count. There's also a strip mall down the street doing ayahuasca journeys with Bret, the shaman for, you know, $500 cold, hard cash on the weekend. It's also turned in this this very relational experience has turned very transactional in a lot of ways. And I can't say that I've ever transactional engaged with these types of medicines. [00:49:55][62.2]

Speaker 1: [00:49:56] I love it. I love the way you said that. [00:49:57][1.3]

Speaker 2: [00:49:58] But but I see it and I wonder. What? How is this how does this actually work? I think some people think it's like a magical insight. They hear that our remarks, you know, started on it after he did ayahuasca. They're like, I'm going to have my big breakthrough here. And I'm one I'm curious as to actually how those journeys go to. I've got a lot of experiences from folks who have entered into these domains somewhat hesitantly, and it ended up being sketch. So I while I'm stoked out of my mind as to where the potential could be for healing on these really incredible medicines and modalities, there's a little caution as well that I'm also wanting to make sure, you know, we keep some level of pulse on pertaining to the transactional nature with which these things are getting consumed and at least in our part of the world. I mean, I could I could probably find a weekend retreat with no prep whatsoever and I could get high AF for two days. Am I able to integrate that? Was I able to actually experience myself, or is that still not penetrating the ego in some way? I've got my thoughts there. I think haven't experienced it necessarily from the transactional space, but I can't help but feel as if something's missing in that. [00:51:22][83.9]

Speaker 1: [00:51:23] So when when did you feel this shift or the desire? When did the intuition come? Or both of you, as you kind of like reunite and you're using these things, this medicine? So that you turn into the people that you've kind of like always known was there, but maybe have been blocked by these labels. You're now more authentically you seen how profound the change has been, not just from the medicine, but like I mean, the medicine's wonderful is the integration. It you can't just live in that space after an epiphany and say, my life is going to change. It is that you live in a physical reality to the degree where if you want to transmute that consciousness, you have to bring who you are being to that reality in a different way. And these can introduce you to all of the reasons you are being, not who you are actually appear to be. And then it's up to you to kind of walk through those things in reality, to transmute them, right, To show up from love instead of fear where you used to, to really be that person and embody the person as yourself to yourself or yourself showing up for yourself so that you can show up that way for the other person. And then they're doing the same thing. Like, That's it. There's no that's the answer. So where did it shift? From you guys have done this enough and it was working so well in your life that you were like, We need to do this. Like, this is something we can offer and we can go from service to self to really service to others in a powerful way using what worked for us. [00:52:49][85.3]

Speaker 2: [00:52:50] Yeah. Quickly, I'll mention what comes up for me is we were at Burning Man, we got back. Mimi moved in with me in August of 2019. A week later, we went to Burning Man, and one night at Burning Man, we start telling the story for the first time that we're, like, telling it to people. We don't have a podcast, we don't have a business together. We're fresh into part two and we're very engaged with each other and we're telling the story. And, you know, an hour goes by and we look up and there's like, I mean, what feels like hundreds of people around us? And it probably wasn't, but in my memory it was like this crowd of people. [00:53:24][34.6]

Speaker 3: [00:53:25] Yeah, we're just sitting in our camp and it start out with two people and then slowly added more and more. [00:53:30][5.3]

Speaker 2: [00:53:31] And we had this just like afterwards. We're like, Damn, that really like resonated for people. That was like really powerful. [00:53:37][6.3]

Speaker 3: [00:53:37] People were crying. People that didn't even know us were crying, and we were like, Oh, damn. There's like something really powerful here that when we are able to share authentically connected to our hearts, not for the show, not for Hey, everybody, look at us and listen to our magical story. Like, it's not like that. It's it's actually every time we tell our story, it's. It's difficult. That's still difficult. You know, It's still us running our hands over the scars. And those memories still exist in our psyche. It's not like it's easy and fun for us to go into some of the the the sad and, you know, tragic parts of our story. But there is something that people connect with. And and I think that the opportunity for us to have this part one. Separate and go deep into ourselves, learn from our mistakes as we're coming back together and then get this second chance to. Retrospectively look at what went wrong and sort of fix or attempt to fix and experience something different in part two. There's something that resonates with people that it's like every anyone has access to this also in their in their life. [00:55:02][84.4]

Speaker 2: [00:55:02] Yeah. So, so we knew that this story was powerful, but immediately we did not want to turn this very fresh relationship, this really powerful story into like a marketing funnel. Like, get your ex-husband back in ten steps, right? You know, we wanted to avoid that at all costs. So we had this idea of starting a podcast, but we actually chose not to tell the story for a long time. We also chose not to talk about psychedelics for a long time. [00:55:30][28.2]

Speaker 3: [00:55:31] Like a hundred episodes. [00:55:32][1.2]

Speaker 2: [00:55:34] And very intentionally because we still have work to do. Don't get me wrong, we had some expertise. We started out the podcast talking a lot about medicinal mushrooms, lion's mane cordyceps, the product that we offer for now, HCC, which is a derivative, you're talking mushroom and we're talking about relationships, you know, masculine and feminine energy, real like one on one type stuff that, that we had learned along the way and been really helpful. You know, we're doing book reviews where we're interviewing guests in the health space and we're kind of knowing that just the kinks of the podcast, all the it needs to get worked out. But we're also holding on to these things that are really, really important to us. I think a really powerful tool for what ultimately we want to do, but it just didn't feel right just out of the gate. Just to project that we were some masters in, in the domain of relationships or psychedelics. And so we put those on pause with the real intention of of opening that up as time went on. And sure enough, like the show started growing, we started getting really incredible feedback on when we did dive into more of our story, just like kind of talking around it. And then it was it was a year and a half into the show almost two years before we we unpacked with the help of a skilled friend. Like the entire journey over the course of about 3 hours. And that's been so much of like my realization in this process is that. This is all about relationships. This whole experience is about relationships. And how many times in my life when things, you know, quote unquote haven't worked out have been you could distill down to the fact that I wasn't interested in a collaborative relationship with that thing or with that individual. I had a set expectation it was transactional, it was contractual. You I've I'm paying you, you give me something back or I'm giving you something, you give me something back. This expectation to life itself that had lost the ability to experience joy, spontaneity, rabbit trails because I'd had such a fixed mindset as it pertains to any of these things, even health. I'm working out because I'm expecting to get results. I'm consuming supplements adaptogens because I'm expecting results instead of what? What's my intention going into this? How is the act and the process itself love making it? How is it life? Affirmative. I would skip the process and I'm fixed on the end result. Completely cutting myself off from the opportunity to experience Bliss presents that creative thought that comes out of nowhere because the whole thing has been systematized in my brain on how to get from Step A to Z. And I'm just kind of like thinking about my life in this regard. And I'm like, Damn, dude, everything's about relationships and everything is about creating the spark that we talked about, the spark all the time, you know, people the spark in relationship. What is that? Well, it starts as happenstance. Lightning strikes. Spark is generated. [00:58:46][193.0]

Speaker 3: [00:58:47] Chemistry. [00:58:47][0.0]

Speaker 2: [00:58:48] And you go back. Yeah. Do. This is so awesome. Well, if you don't actually nurture that spark into a flame, it will die. And that's the kind of the the equivalent to most relationships in life itself. But so many endeavors, so many projects, so many ideas that you have spark. But the ingredients that create the spark, which is happenstance, but it's polarity, it's the masculine, the feminine, it's similar ideas, but it's a different set of ingredients to turn that spark that little initial flame into a fire, into it, into a fireplace. And so what is that set of tools that takes these sparks? Yes, it can be in relationship. It can also be in your purpose and creativity. How do you take those and nurture those into something that is ever lasting? And it requires a completely different set of skills. The kindling that you're putting on the fire looks a little bit different every time, even though it still needs to generate polarity, it's going to be a different set of tools. And so for rely on what got you into this project, into this relationship, to just expect that that's going to get you to this space of ever lasting fire is is immature and and foolish. And so what we've kind of unpacked in this process is like, man, there are there's an infinite amount of logs to put on this fire. And let's explore this because it can be anything and everything from relationships, sex supplements, health movement, relationship to God, medicinal mushrooms, your purpose, money. I mean, it's really, really endless. And it excites me this deep curiosity as to what those, you know, ingredients get to look like is just it's just insatiable. [01:00:34][106.4]

Speaker 1: [01:00:38] The story of. Of needing to know the process and the relationship to the result. Is, I believe, one that is going to resonate with literally every human being on the planet in one way, shape or form. If everyone, I believe, is getting down to the depth of honesty that is their own personal story and of relationships. I have yet to find many humans who before like an awakening these trees and these toolbox materials. You're talking about reference. It is. A result that is designed to give. Like a feeling or a response that they think the symbol, which is the result, is going to give them. So we do get trapped in the unconscious in most people's part one, myself included. That was my that was my biggest. As my personal self story was, okay, I need X, Y, and Z to happen or I need more of it. Or it's very transactional. I do this, you do this, and then I can bank on that. And then here are the steps to get that. So I can always be assured this got it. And and that life, which is very much not in the moments. It's designed to bring upon a future moment that I'm giving a responsibility to give me the thing that I can have right now. But I'm unaware of it. So I'm constantly not ever where I'm saying I want to be. And even when it comes, it's worse. It was worse for me, and I believe for many, because of the power we're giving the symbol in this transaction. So when you're referencing the toolbox, which is that a couple of times that is I love it every single time I might steal it. What have you found? Like, what have you put in that that toolbox that you pull out when when life is showing you some of part one coming back? What are the some of the main things that you're like toolbox time. We applied this filter to this to shift it like what are some of the if you had to list a couple of them? Yeah. [01:02:50][131.8]

Speaker 2: [01:02:51] I'll jump in quickly and then kick to you. First and foremost. Understanding that your partner and or you can this can this can get you know can get liberal with this and go to project or passion. But let's just say for the sake of this exercise, we're talking about romantic partnership. The only expectation you should have is that your partner is going to be evolving and changing all the time. So if you're interested in making this fun, get deeply curious about who your partner is. On a pretty consistent basis. I hate to say, like every day, because nobody does that every day. But on a consistent basis, go, man. I wonder what she's into today. I wonder how her thinking is changing today. And. Open that. Gateway of communication because we had a perfect little childhood romance in the sense that I probably had, you know, think of a pie chart, probably had a couple of gaps. But her pie chart kind of perfectly fit. And my gaps, you know, she supported her gaps. I supported we thought we were perfect. We get married and guess what? Human beings change all the time. And so as those little pie charts start to rotate through the human evolution, the gaps are exposed and you go, Whoa, we signed up for that contract called marriage that said, You're going to fill my gaps. You're not doing that anymore. And vice versa. Instead of the consistent dialog of Who are you today, Who am I today? Here's a couple of things that I'm feeling. Here's the things that I'm changing. Here's what's evolving for me, and curiosity, with the only expectation being that your partner will change, is a really great place to start. [01:04:39][108.4]

Speaker 3: [01:04:40] Mm Yeah. Beautiful. Everything that Chase just said wholeheartedly agree with. I think when we're talking about tangible, practical tools, maybe there's someone listening that's like not in a great place in their relationship and they just don't even know where to start. I think we have to start before we even say anything to our partner. Before we even evaluate anything that our partner is doing. We need to get really clear on our own experience, which seems sort of like elementary, I'm sure, to some of your listeners. But there will be some people who are like, Oh damn, she's right. If you don't know what your own story is, if you don't know what your own experiences, how are you going to effectively communicate that to your partner in a way that they can fully digest and metabolize such that you can actually grow through the difficulty or the challenge, what have you? So the first step is, you know, I think. Really getting familiar with. What story are you telling yourself? And you can literally write this down in your journal, whatever is happening in your relationship right now. You can ask yourself, you know, what is the story that I'm telling myself and just free flow. What are you experiencing in your body, in your psyche, about yourself, about your partner? Get really clear on what that is. And then so you can, you know, when you you bring that to your partner, you're able then to share your authentic experience. And instead of pointing the finger at them and saying, you're not doing enough of this, this is where you're wrong. This is where you need to be better, this is what you need to change for us to to be happy, basically, which is really common. It's really easy to pick up on what your partner is not doing, right, in quotes. Right. But if you start with your experience, when you're sharing your experience, that cannot be. Argued with, especially if it's done in a way that's coming from love and an open heart. So what that looks like is you get really clear on your story. You bring that to your partner in a moment, hopefully, where it's not necessarily like cats and dogs fighting. Like, hopefully there's some level of calm and you can literally say this, you know, verbatim to your partner. The story I'm telling myself about. Blink is blink. Is any of that true? And you sort of give an invite for the dialog to begin where you are layering in your communication, the possibility that it could just be a story in your mind, and then you offer your partner the opportunity to sort of if there rescue you from that story, like, Oh my God, no, babe, how could your oh no, this there's just a miscommunication here. Like, we just need to get on the same page. Oh, great. It's just a story. If it's not just a story. Your perception of reality is on cue. It's correct. And this is what you're experiencing. This is the story that's true. It's still gives the opportunity for them to, in a in a very loving way, come back and say, you know what, this this part is true and let's talk about it. So when you are able to come to your partner with your own experiencing, hey, this is what I'm experiencing in my body, you know, when you don't really help me out with the stuff around the house, I know you really love me, but when this happens, I don't feel loved. I feel not listened to. I feel alone. I feel really sad. And I would really love to work on this together. And I'm really committed to having an epic life and lifestyle in relationship with you. And I want to get to solution mode. You know, let's work on this together. That's so much easier for your partner to digest and then commit to with you. Hey, let's come up with a solution. Let's work towards something. What can we do? What's step in the right direction can we take today that moves us to where we both want to be together and when we, you know, have done surveys with people, when we talk to you know, I talk to women all the time in my DMS who are looking for advice and and it always comes back to communication. It I won't say always. I would say a stark majority of the time it comes down to our communication. And when we survey people, that's the thing that they struggle with the most in relationship. And we're not taught in TV, movies, media how to present our stuff to our partner in a way that they can actually metabolize. So by keeping it in your experience, understanding your story, and then if you want to go to the next level where you are sort of, you know, changing the oil of your relationship and fixing the roof when the sun is shining, then you can implement something like a regular what we call a check in. And I'll I'll stop here. If you if you have anything to add or ask questions. If you want to know more about the check in, we can certainly go into that. But the check in is a safe container tool for you to air the dirty laundry in a way that is very loving and safe. And it's it's like a built in MDMA experience. Basically, you are generating that experience on purpose for the hopeful outcome that you can grow together through the hardship rather than feel like you're taking steps backwards or separating like we did in part one. [01:10:17][336.9]

Speaker 2: [01:10:17] Yeah, I'll add to this a huge component and and we get this often in relationships is scorekeeping is happening in the dynamic of a relationship. I did something for you. You've done something for me. The score is pretty even. We're good relationships in a good spot or it gets off. I've done way more and then you've done for me and this is what we call scorekeeping, and it's usually what comes up after 2 minutes of an argument and there's some level of charge and well, guess what? Here's all that. Here's the scorecard that I've been keeping and you're way behind. [01:10:51][34.1]

Speaker 3: [01:10:52] You're bringing up past experiences to add fuel to the fire of the charged conversation in the present. [01:10:58][6.1]

Speaker 2: [01:10:59] And so one of the things we talk about often is not just evening the score, you know, in the world, but we talk about forgiveness in the sense that we go, all right, okay, I forgive you. We're going to even the score. We're going to set it back to zero. We're starting over. Forgiveness. Forgiveness is actually removing the scoreboard altogether because relationship is a game that does not have a winner and a loser. It's it's unbound or it should be unbound. And as long as you're keeping score, you're playing a game that you've already lost. [01:11:25][26.6]

Speaker 1: [01:11:27] I couldn't agree more. I could not agree more. And so many things were kind of like everything was resonating. But there were there were things that were that were coming up. But I want to touch on that. I feel like we're so important. I just want to like, re bring them up. Like removing the score and like coming from a position of there might be people listening who are so familiar with that, so familiar with like, you know what I do? Like, I do that I'm constantly looking to see if what they're doing is matching what I feel like I'm doing. Like there's constantly that inner and it's in. I believe in a lot of cases it's very, very unconscious until it's not right, like everything else. But there is that like, Hmm. Like, am I getting back what I'm putting out? Right, That idea. And so similar, if you take this and compare it to what you were talking about earlier, even outside of a relationship, when you're talking about like, yeah, you can get you can do this with anything, you could do this with your relationship to dollars. You can do this for the relationship to your status. You could do a relationship to health and fitness. You could do with the relationship to anything when you're when you're constantly looking to get something out of something or your benefit, it's easy to constantly move that into a relationship and then do the same thing. But that's because, like what you were saying earlier, like what you're doing is conditional and transactional. Therefore it's even output. Even like, even input. I better get the same thing I'm putting out. So it's conditional because you think the thing is going to give you something that you don't have or you want more of. But in a relationship and just touching maybe on what you were saying about how you have to check in with yourself first. And if you know your story first and if you are good with yourself and love yourself and forgive yourself first, then the journey is I will give you. My only concern is that everything that you are wanting, I can somehow help facilitate for you and hold space for you and be that for you. And then when that other human has the same sense of self and worth and knowing and forgiveness of themself and their story in the collective, then that person can have the same things. We have two humans that are in a relationship that's starting with the relationship with themselves and their only thing. There's no service to self. It is I get I get to understand giving and receiving are one thing and the more that I offer you from that place of love, then the more you'll be able to receive that to the degree that you've allowed that for yourself. And it's just this like reciprocating energy of love and openness. And the thing I believe that you that touched me the most is you when you were talking about safety and that safe space, when you feel safe within yourself, then you are able to offer that to another. And it's unconditional. But not because you wouldn't offer that to someone who isn't working on being the same level of unconditional love for themselves so that they can supply that to you. And it's a choice and it's something that's kind of flowing and working all the time. The thing that I found prevents that for a lot of humans. Is when you were saying like, Hey, it's so much deeper than like the waves on the surface, the socks on the floor. Right? There's something well underneath that that I would like to speak to you about. I haven't really ever done this before. It feels very uncomfortable for me. I'm just used to kind of yelling and screaming at my partner or the socks on the floor and not really saying what The fact that you're leaving socks on the floor means and represents to me and how often you may or may not be thinking of me or what you feel about me. And you know, this this energy of being safe, so many people won't feel safe offering that kind of a a critique or a suggestion or conversation with their partner because they feel that it could trigger something. And this could be from past relationships, too, but it triggers them. And then so I don't feel safe when you're triggered. So I'll deal with that or I'll yell or I'll scream and not talk about what it means. So like when you were saying all that, I was like, my mind was like, how amazing it was. And I just want to get your point of view on how important it might be for once someone gets the energy up and overcomes their what I would imagine is a lot of momentum and fear to say. I thought of you for a second. Like, I want to talk about what this is and what it means and what it represents to me. And I want to say that X, Y, or Z, for me, that's just what's happening. I want to put it out there I really like I can't hold it in and I want to have this kind of a relationship where we can use these things to grow. How important is that? To allow the other person who may be triggered by this the space to initially respond or I don't say respond, react. Or defend. The act that you're bringing up and let that gas out so that you can have a real conversation. Does that make sense? Mm hmm. [01:16:18][291.8]

Speaker 3: [01:16:20] Yeah. And you, of course, can't control your partner's response. The only thing that you can control is your tone, the energy that you're bringing to the conversation, your responses instead of reactions, your your responses, the overwhelming love energy that you're bringing to this bubble. Hopefully, that's the only thing that you can. That's the only thing that you can control. [01:16:49][29.4]

Speaker 1: [01:16:50] Yeah. [01:16:50][0.0]

Speaker 3: [01:16:50] And so if you are doing all of those things where you're speaking in a calm voice, you're making an appointment to speak to your partner. You know, you don't want to just come at them and say, We need to talk. That's very different than, Hey, I would love to share something that's really important to me. When would be a good time to to check in with each other? Right. That's all you've got to say. When would be a good time for you? You're getting their permission to share something that is important to you on your heart that clearly is taking up mental space for you. So I think that it is important, Yes. To allow your partner the space to be able to respond. And in some cases, they'll want to defend themselves. And that's okay. That's a human response to be able, even if it's not defensive, if it's just, hey, I hear you. Yes. Here's how I interpreted the situation. And we have maybe different perceptions of what that is like. But if you are bringing all of that loving energy to the conversation the best way you know how and they are every single time blowing up, not willing to come to a solution oriented mode of conversation where you can sit down, be calm, know that love is the nutrient that binds you together, and that is the glue of this conversation. If they're coming back time and time again and not willing to move forward with you, that is still very good feedback. It might not be the feedback that you want, but it's great feedback and you have to decide for yourself, Do I want a partner who is committed to creating on purpose an epic fucking relationship, or do I want to trudge through this relationship and do my best to inspire my partner into changing? The latter might be true, but you have to. Accept the fact that that might never happen. So it's it's about coming to grips with what you want to feel in a relationship. And if your partner is showing you good evidence that they might not be at the at the level of consciousness and awareness that they are actually able to do that with you. That's still really good feedback. [01:19:22][152.1]

Speaker 2: [01:19:23] Yeah, it's like really important is that, you know, you bring it up in the way that you articulated and, you know, best case scenario, your partner's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go. Let's, you know, let's, let's do this, let's get into this. You know, I think there's a good likelihood in a lot of relationships, especially folks that we've talked to, where there's a trigger and there's a response that is from a trigger. It is critically important that from that response, which will feel like a poke that you, the one who brought this up, don't then impulsively respond in an aggressive or hostile way, because then there's enough data for them to gaslight essentially. [01:20:02][39.3]

Speaker 1: [01:20:03] And yeah, you guys both collectively, of course, nailed it. That's exactly the combination of exactly what you both said is exactly like, exactly. That's it. It's that space so that whatever they have kind of gasses out without without something to anchor to, to keep defending or blocking like, Yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm going to let you go ahead. [01:20:26][22.2]

Speaker 3: [01:20:26] And it's not it's not enjoyable for one to to bully someone who is is not fighting back. [01:20:37][10.3]

Speaker 1: [01:20:37] Yeah, exactly. I love it. I love that you say that again. [01:20:40][3.5]

Speaker 3: [01:20:44] It is not enjoyable for anyone to bully someone who is not fighting back. [01:20:50][5.6]

Speaker 1: [01:20:51] Hmm. We can end it right here, thanks to get in on that. [01:20:56][4.9]

Speaker 3: [01:20:56] It's so true, though, because when you throw barbs at your partner, because I came to this conversation and I was from a loving place and I'm so conscious and you said this thing and then it ignited this and me and now we we both have evidence that our partner is not showing up the way that we want them to and that they're misbehaving. And so if you choose to not engage and misbehave and just say, I hear you, it sounds like this is really, you know, triggering. And and I think that it might be better if we maybe take a walk, take some space, clear our heads, you know. And we actually spoke to a recent guest who who was actually, you know, talking about this concept of do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? Right. If you're still in the mode of wanting to be right, that's okay. I'm not saying it's good, but it's it's a human it's a normal human tendency. So if you are in the space where you are wanting to be right, or you can sense that your partner really wants to be right, they don't want to be happy with you. They want to be right. You can ask each other, Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy right now together and understand that both of you are hurting to a certain degree together at the same time. So if you need to take some space, take a walk, clear your head. [01:22:20][83.7]

Speaker 1: [01:22:20] Yeah. [01:22:20][0.0]

Speaker 3: [01:22:21] That could it could be that. [01:22:22][1.0]

Speaker 2: [01:22:22] And sometimes a simple response of just ouch and just that is powerful enough. You know, we just trigger the shit out of each other with, with. And I'm just speaking, you know, collectively here with how much we love to just argue as human beings. And if it really, really got down to it, just simple, you know, emotional expression of what you're feeling can oftentimes just speak a thousand words. And and this is this is even outside of just charged relationships, a question we get all the time and it's usually from women is how do I get him to enroll in this work? And that's relationship work. Sometimes it's holistic health, Sometimes it's, you know, spirituality or mindfulness. And there's this desire from one person and the relationship to evolve and to grow. And they feel like they're, you know, dragging their significant other. And it's the same setup, it's the same approach. It's coming at it with a with an invitation. But there's only so much that you can do after that point. And then it's you in your journey and how you embody the things that you are on in your journey that will sort of prove whether or not the person that you're with truly is has the type of love that they're willing to step up and step into a better version of themselves. And oddly enough, the loudest form of communication is embodying the things that you know to be true. [01:23:37][75.0]

Speaker 1: [01:23:38] I mean, you nailed it. And even if we bring this back to what we were saying in the beginning about whether people are aware of it or not, and however it takes shape or kind of flows, we're all kind of on this journey of discovering who who we are at the truest level for ourselves. Right. And I believe that at the truest level of all of ourselves is kind of like the same know that universal mind, whatever you call it, the source of whatever self that there is. And then we have all these like connections to our personal story in our personal lives and our personal truths. So when you're saying, like we're blasting out of my blew my mind, it's blowing apart personal truths and personal attachments and judgments to get into this one that kind of we all share if we have access to it. And if you live from that place and embody it and blow it through you in a relationship to yourself, it flows to others. So that's very interesting when you're like. Because I found similar things like. Someone will come and be like, okay, how do I get my so-and-so, like to do this? And I'm like, Well, here's the deal. The best, Like, as our mind would describe it, one of the most amazing things we could imagine is like, Hey, I'm awake to wanting to do this work. Like, I understand that there's a benefit. I understand that like blocks and limitations and stories in a like things that are limiting me and restricting me. I want to be myself. I want to be safe and loving and abundant with myself. And I have these and my it just seems like so-and-so is just like, I don't know. I know they don't want to do it or they're resistant to it or they don't get it. They're not like they're not interested. And so there's this another thing that happens where the person won't do the work. Or fear that as they just even uncorked the most unconscious fear, they won't do the work or they won't continue, they won't build that momentum because there's a fear that says if they do and become this, that my life changes because this person was not on board. So therefore, my growth in my own personal ability to shift into my best self is conditional based upon my partner's willingness to do the same. So like there's this kink instead of realizing that sometimes, okay, like you said, it is embodiment and we're all here to be and embody the best aspect of our sense of self, that we can connect it to this universal truth, right? That's the journey. And I like to say that there's no version of yourself in any way, shape or form where any one else benefits from you not being the fullest of nature of that. Like there's no version of this where anyone suffers from you being the fullest connection to yourself. It's not a thing. So if you can really align with that, whether it's through meditation, whether it's through, you know, medicinal mushrooms, any kind of like plant that whatever it is, whatever your journey is, to realize that for yourself and embody it for yourself through the fear that your partner may not be on board and you are now the awakening catalyst for your partner. And whatever this looks like, as long as you're doing it authentically, that person, they may resist. They might fight. They may not understand. They may be like, What are you doing? And think you're crazy and try to like spiritually dash you and bring you back down. But if you keep going, you're going to be the catalyst for someone to question everything. Like you said, bully. It's not fun when there's no one fighting back. So when the energy that used to keep people locked in that unconscious, back and forth volley, when the energy of one of those humans kind of dissolves that and they're coming from that place of love and acceptance, the devil is gone and that person doesn't want to fight with or argue with the person that's resistant. And then it can do nothing but bounce off as the mirror back to them for them to see. So I just like I know many of the listeners, you'll reason I would even bring this part up because I know many. This is a big concern for many listeners that one of them is ready to go. And I have a resistant partner and I don't know what to do and I'm like, Keep going. They're like, But I'll lose everything. I'm like, You're going to gain everything. By doing this, and then that person who is resistant is also going to have the potential to choose themselves. Yeah, you might be the villain in their story by doing this. So like what you guys were talking about was so powerful. I know for so many people listening. [01:27:45][246.8]

Speaker 2: [01:27:46] Yeah. [01:27:46][0.0]

Speaker 1: [01:27:47] Sorry. [01:27:47][0.0]

Speaker 3: [01:27:50] I have a way. There is a way to. I don't like the term hack, so I use the word harmonize instead. There is a way to potentially harmonize before you get to that issue that you just laid out, where I'm on this path of self-development, spiritual realization, and my partner is not what can sort of be a buffer and hopefully prevent what you just laid out is. [01:28:16][25.8]

Speaker 1: [01:28:16] Threats if you. [01:28:19][2.6]

Speaker 3: [01:28:20] Let your partner in from the beginning, from a space of no expectation that they have to join in. But simply communicating from a place of love and openness that you are so lit up by this thing. Hey, I just. Oh, my God, I'm so excited. I just ordered this book and it I think it's going to be really amazing. I've heard great things about it and I'm just really excited to dive in and or maybe you're all I'm reading this book and damn, it's so amazing. I would just love if, you know, from time to time I could share with you what I'm learning. Like that would help me like cemented even more or hey, I, I really want to sign up for this, you know, group coaching program and here's what it's going to provide for me. X, Y, Z. I'm so lit up by it, it's going to be amazing. I would just love if I was able to, like, share with you what I'm learning. Like, don't say I want you to do this with me. Can you do this with me? Can you come with me? Because you're literally putting them on the spot. If you simply open up your experience and invite them to just be a sounding board for you, who's going to be like, No, you can't talk to me. I don't want to hear anything about it. Maybe there's some people out there again, that's really good feedback. Most people, most partners who love each other are going to be like, Yeah, sure, totally. Like, you want to talk about it at dinner? Like, yeah, I'd be curious. Like then it takes expectation off the partner to engage. Hopefully that can be a way to sort of dodge that bullet. [01:29:53][92.9]

Speaker 2: [01:29:54] Yeah, it's back to the point of like the bedrock being curiosity with the only expectation that you have is that your partner is going to change and that these types of things are going to come up and then it's expected. And an interesting another, another tool in this in these circumstances is having an awareness of masculine and feminine energies and then the dynamic of your relationship, masculine and feminine, just being the energy, not the gender and the dynamic between, you know, a man and a woman or a man and a man. Woman and a woman can just always change as to who's wearing the masculine hat, who's wearing the feminine hat, who is more masculine, dominant, who's more feminine, dominant, And just having an awareness of those in those polarizing energies can be really helpful for even something as simple as bringing up a particular point of conversation that you would like to discuss. I'm a dominant masculine energy to be penetrated energetically through, Hey, you need to be doing this because I'm going to do it is going to feel not polar. It's not going to feel like the spark of relationship. [01:30:52][58.3]

Speaker 3: [01:30:53] It's going to feel prickly. [01:30:53][0.5]

Speaker 2: [01:30:54] But there are other there are other cases where I am I am, you know, more of a gentler version of masculinity. And so to pair that with my partner is just has been such a powerful tool. And I'm a huge believer in just like health when you don't know how to move your body or eat. What's helpful is a diet and a fitness program to then practice, implement, hit the protocols ten out of ten for a time, and then you can reach this space of intuitive eating and intuitive movement. And you don't need the protocols, you don't need the structure, but it's really hard to skip it and get straight to intuitive living or intuitive. Fitness and health and the same thing in relationship. Sometimes these structures are clunky, sometimes to go through the check in and to hit the cadence of the things that need to be said can feel clunky. But working through that structure, understanding the masculine, the feminine dynamic can move you into this space of more intuition as it pertains to how you engage with your significant other. [01:31:57][63.3]

Speaker 1: [01:31:58] I love that. I love that. And as far as anyone listening who is interested in in what you guys are doing, what you're kind of living and embodying, and how you have used these these tools and these these medicines to kind of help your life. If someone is like on the fence or skeptical or really, really what I found is like when something like this comes in and if there's someone who's listening and is like, I have resonated with everything that these two have said, like it's it's almost scary how much I resonated with what you have said. And I, I know what's what I need to do. And I believe that this could be something that doesn't like. There's a fear that a lot of people can have once they know the answer. And that's what I think a lot of people don't maybe aren't aware of yet, and that is that we're seeking this answer. And here's here's to humans who have not only like they're not saying they have the answer, like they're using it and learning and growing as like students and teachers and integrating it and doing the work. And you have a story that many people have. There's other people that are like listening and resonating and it feels so amazing and they're like, This is it. And then there's this thing that goes at Twitter and everything. I think that may not be true, but the story is, So I have to stop doing this. I have to. They can't do this to me. What if I like the fear that comes in when we realize that we can actually have what we want that keeps most humans from actually being an embodying who they truly are? There's probably a lot of people that are hyper excited and hyper terrified right now listening to how powerful you guys are speaking about what's worked for you, what would you say to them? That could help them maybe find a little bit more peace and a little bit more space within themselves to to navigate a journey that they believe right now is maybe more than they are willing to. Yeah. [01:33:47][109.2]

Speaker 3: [01:33:48] Yeah, it's a it's a great question. I will start out by saying that if you change nothing, nothing will change. So if you are good with everything in your life, exactly how it is, and you could live the next 60 or 70 years exactly how it is great. But if you're feeling this nudge of intuition like there's something else, there's something more for me, and I'm seeking that thing. Then I would say, you know, on the note of if you change nothing, nothing will change. Sit down and journal. If nothing changes, what will I feel like in three months? What will I feel like in six months? What will I feel like in two years? Whether it's your health, your spirituality, your relationship? How will I feel if nothing changes in two years? Sometimes that's the little bit that just it's the loving nudge that puts someone into that that future version of themself where nothing has changed and they're still miserable, they're still unhappy, they're still unfulfilled in some way. And if you can connect with that, not linger there and not dwell on it, Of course, you don't want to just put yourself into a depression. Thinking about everything is, you know, going to be awful in the future. But even just for a split second, like what will that version of me feel like if I change nothing today? And that can sometimes be the nudge to be like, All right, I'm doing it. [01:35:18][89.7]

Speaker 2: [01:35:19] Yeah, I, I look at this a lot, like how I would look at wellness and we're trying to develop and nurture a relationship here. So even if it's the relationship that you have to relationship work, this can't be that transactional exchange that we were talking about earlier. And if we were in, you know, let's just say it's an exercise program and somebody is like starting from square one and I wouldn't put them in a back squat out of the gate and I wouldn't have them putting, you know, a bunch of load on their back to squat, especially if that sounds terrible or overwhelming or too much. Rather, I would I would say that's that's not the way you engage in relationship is to hate it immediately. And so where where do you have an opportunity or Elaine to actually enjoy this relationship that you're starting with movement. Oh, it's it's going for walks. Excellent. Have you tried yoga? You know, let's try something a little more. You know, barrier to entry is a little bit smaller and momentum is very powerful and compounding self-interest of putting a little bit in the piggy bank today and choosing the little bit that you can bite off today will exponentially grow over time. And you'll have enough momentum and confidence for some of those smaller wins that you'll get. You'll be ready to back squat, you know, within no time. And so what does that mean? Read a book, listen to a podcast. Those are really I mean, those changed my freaking life starting right there. And so, you know, if guys are listening it's Way of the Superior Man by David Data. It's like starting point masculinity. You've got the King Warrior magician lover, you learning about the masculine archetypes. John Wayne is an incredible teacher. He's got content all over the place. And so if this is kind of work that's interesting to you and you're feeling that call, it's also easily be like, Oh my God, I can never get to the degree that these guys are getting. I'm never going to enroll this significant other that I have into this type of work. Just that's you're you're already in the future. You're already way out of the present. Come back what what is what is you know, causing you to salivate right now. It could just be a book, it could just be a YouTube video and I would just get a little momentum, get some wins and start putting those into the to the piggybank of of self interest. [01:37:42][143.3]

Speaker 1: [01:37:43] I love that. I love that. And and and bridging off that is we're kind of coming to a close here with with that momentum or for you to and and what it is that you do what it is that you provide the content that you create and the message that you're bringing, the message mission that you're on, what is the next level of of experience for you and what your what you are creating and and offering for people to consume? What what where is the momentum taking you next? [01:38:12][28.5]

Speaker 3: [01:38:13] It's a good question. I mean, a lot of it is is unknown, which is exciting. And we're staying curious and open. [01:38:21][7.3]

Speaker 1: [01:38:24] I mean, I'll let you answer. Yeah, I think. [01:38:26][1.9]

Speaker 2: [01:38:27] I think about the future all the time as I'm telling people not to think about the future. I believe I've had a long history of having some level of imposter syndrome. And so it's even weird to call myself a podcaster and someone of any sort of influence. But. But I'm. Really integrating that because it's absolutely a part of my purpose. There's so much of what's next. That is just a link in the chain of of how we do things. And I think imposter syndrome can be supported by this link in the chain idea where we are all connected in this beautiful evolutionary process of self-discovery and learning and. I have studied with Masters and have spent hours and lots of money with it going over the top of my head because they're way up the the chain. And I need somebody who can take that profound wisdom, chew it up, digest it, and spit it out in bro language that I can digest properly. And I know that there are others that I can do the same. And a year goes by and all of a sudden I'm able to actually comprehend what Ram Dass was saying a little bit better. Or Paul Chick, who's our dear friend and mentor, spent first year with a guy like maybe 20% landed. Now it's like 80%. And so maybe there's just a link in the chain that that's supportive of just this, this sort of momentum up the scale of of learning and development and discovery. And so there's an attribute of that. Relationships are just while the important for both of us. And I'm really interested in taking some of these ideas, you know, we applied structure to a lot of our learning around conscious relationships for some time. And I think now we're in this space where there's some maybe not original ideas, but maybe we're pulling something from the collective that is a feels new and feels novel and there's a whole brand new spanking world in 2023 that we're a part of and I'm have a fervor for. Breaking through what seems like a saturated space of influencers, for lack of a better term, into something that that can honestly feel authentic and genuine without having this sort of like, salesy, corporatized version of trying to have these types of conversations. And so really fluffy way of saying, I'm deeply curious as to how we continue to create value without. Having the people who are a part of this consumption feel like they're in a sales funnel. [01:41:15][167.4]

Speaker 1: [01:41:15] Mm hmm. [01:41:15][0.1]

Speaker 3: [01:41:16] I would I would add to that that a big piece we've said this word like ten times is authenticity for us and for me specifically, I'll speak for myself if I'm not sharing authentically what I'm interested in, what's working for me, what has helped me in my relationship or health or whatever. It is sort of like the guide archetype where it's like, I've really like gone through this, like looking back like, Hey you guys, if you want to like, look over here and do that, this is what helped me. And just to the best of my ability, share from an authentic place, an authentic heart. And that's going to change. Right now it's conscious relationships and spirituality and holistic health. In three years it might be conscious parenting and things like that. When we get to the next phase of of our life and just being able to be sort of this bridge for people who have one foot, you know, on the ground in reality, and then the other foot like, you know, a little maybe more up in the clouds, esoteric, woo, spiritual, but we can be a sort of bridge there and help people practically, but also make it. Divine in some way. And along the way, keep sharing from an authentic place and what is currently helping us, what we're interested in and in hopes that. It helps people sort of dodge some of the bullets that hit us. [01:42:43][86.4]

Speaker 1: [01:42:44] Well. Just talking with you guys these two times, the the the insight, the wisdom and knowledge that you bring to the table in a world where, again, in duality, you're going to have that contrast. You're going to have people who are using or speaking what may sound like a similar message for this idea of service to self. And it's very, very interesting that it looks so similar. It looks so similar that it could be challenging to tell the difference between someone who is doing something or a service to self reason in a sales funnel, you know, providing value to themselves under the appearance of of offering this insight, you know from the from their higher guidance to some. Version of this where you have two humans who are showing up and sharing what they're doing and being open with the evolution of their story, that your own honesty and vulnerability that's impacting everyone that's listening. And I believe it's that honesty and vulnerability as you connect to your authentic self that allows everyone else permission to do the same thing while they're listening. And you kind of are that beacon or so many humans in an authentic way to to give themselves permission to embody these things that you're that you're talking about. And I just I love you. I applaud you for it. I'm so grateful that you took the time to share all of your your story and your ideas and thoughts and and what you're doing in the world with with me and with all of us. Where can humans who are listening find you, interact with you, engage with you and your content? Where can they find you? [01:44:15][91.4]

Speaker 3: [01:44:16] The medicine dot com is our website. So medicine is spelled without an e on the end. M.ed i c i n. And from there you can basically navigate anywhere. We have an online store where you can view our mushroom products. We have an immunity capsule that is one of a kind. We also have a delicious liquid cinnamon roll mushroom elixir called Mushy Love that's available at on our store. And I hang out a lot on Instagram. So my handle is Mimi underscore the medicine. And of course, we've mentioned it already, but the Medicine podcast is really like, It's our baby and we pour our hearts into that. And if anyone enjoyed this type of conversation, there's almost 200 episodes of these types of conversations with, you know, just Chase and I. And then we also invite guests on like yourself and learn from other people as well. [01:45:12][56.0]

Speaker 2: [01:45:13] Yeah, I'm on Instagram as well and intentionally leaning into that a bit more here as as we look at the second half of the year. And that's the underscore chase and underscore one. And we we just started a YouTube channel this year as well. So so videos on YouTube and yeah and even answering your earlier question that that we got both got pretty long winded on I'm just like wanting to lean in further to areas of unknown on on our podcast and I want to get deeper into definitions of God that are, that are different than my own. I want to get deeper into how people who have such radically different ideas can actually be productive and collaborate. Like, is there a way that we can actually do this because nobody seems to be legitimately talking about it? And so I want to lean into some of those areas of discomfort a little bit more this latter half of the year and then rolling into next year. And we'd love to have you back on as a consistent guest because, oh God, I just loved it so much. [01:46:12][58.5]

Speaker 1: [01:46:12] The literally I guarantee it's guaranteed. Like I don't like to say anything in this reality is guaranteed. Guaranteed that the second you ask me to do anything, I will be there with and for you. So with that, as we kind of like close it out and to speak to what you just said, people with humans separate who believe they're separate with radically different ideas. How can we all do this one thing? If you guys could leave everyone one message about that exact idea, which seems so complicated. What would be the one word that you think you could present to all humans who believe they're separate with these different radical ideas that could connect them? It's all What's what? What could it be? [01:46:55][42.7]

Speaker 3: [01:47:00] Well, this may not be what you're looking for, but. It's embodiment. You don't need to convince someone if your life is an expression of embodiment of what you believe and you're able to show evidence, the fruits of your labor are working. You don't have to convince anyone. You don't have to fight with anyone on social media to prove your point. If you embody, not only are you changing your life, your children's lives, your family, you are actually changing the world. If everyone did that and stopped trying to convince anyone else in their life, just live the truth that you know to be right. The world would change overnight. [01:47:41][41.7]

Speaker 2: [01:47:42] Yeah, we're aligned as always, because my word was going to be hyperlocal. And that starts with addressing yourself, your family, your community, your neighborhood. And if we look at look at this from a bottoms up approach, I think we'll see a lot more change where we're stuck arguing whether, you know, steak is better than salmon for dinner, instead of realizing the fact that dinner is satiating and nutritious and, you know, a beautiful part of this life experience. And I think once we start getting to the thing behind the thing, we can start to just realize that diversity is the spice of life. [01:48:22][39.7]

Speaker 1: [01:48:23] I absolutely love it. And I love both of you so much. Chase Mami, thank you so much for coming on here. Thank you to everyone for listening. All of your links are going to be in the description below, wherever this is so that as many people as possible can find you and benefit from your amazing mission and message. See you guys next time. 

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